Comments 16

C'est l'autoritarisme qui pose problème, pas l'islam !

Aug 12, 2013 Dani Rodrik

PRINCETON – L'islam est-il fondamentalement incompatible avec la démocratie ? De nombreux événements nous amènent à nous poser la question. Mais c'est une question qui obscurcit les choses, plutôt que de les éclairer.

La Turquie, l'Egypte et la Tunisie sont des pays très différents les uns des autres, mais ils sont tous gouvernés par les islamistes (au moins jusqu'à une époque récente dans le cas de l'Egypte). A des degrés variés, leurs promesses de démocratie se sont relevées creuses, car ils n'ont pas défendu les libertés publiques et les droits de l'homme et ont réprimé durement leurs adversaires. Malgré leurs assurances répétées, l'intérêt des dirigeants islamistes pour la démocratie n'a duré que le temps d'une campagne électorale.

Ceux qui estiment que la destitution du gouvernement Morsi est justifiée avancent un argument : de plus en plus autoritaire, le régime des Frères musulmans a foulé aux pieds les idéaux et les aspirations de la révolution de la place Tahrir qui a renversé l'ex-président Moubarak en 2011.

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Dani Rodrik

Writing for PS since 1998
150 Commentaries

Dani Rodrik is Professor of International Political Economy at Harvard University’s John F. Kennedy School of Government. He is the author of The Globalization Paradox: Democracy and the Future of the World Economy, Economics Rules: The Rights and Wrongs of the Dismal Science, and, most recently, Straight Talk on Trade: Ideas for a Sane World Economy.

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0 Comments on this paragraph, 17 in all 17 Comments on this article

Ken Presting Aug 24, 2013

A useful correction to the latest post by Rocard, and a recent one by Blair. But let me also point out that the authoritarian strongmen are often supported by former colonial powers and the USA.

Developed economies benefit significantly from keeping commodity prices low in the resource-exporting countries. Those prices are low when wages and taxes there are low.

We profit from under-development. Or at least, certain industries with disproportional political influence profit.
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Ian Hughes Aug 23, 2013

It has been a very good week for authoritarianism - Mubarak's release, the inauguration (yet again) of Mugabe, the imprisonment of Bradley Manning, the use of chemical weapons in Syria (to a muted reaction from the rest of the world), and another show trial in China under an unreformed authoritarian CCP. Psychopaths and their allies have had a very good week. http://t.co/X4SXOCYFS9
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Nicolas Sampson Aug 21, 2013

'An entity that is authoritarian and hierarchical in nature cannot be relied on to protect and promote a democratic transition,' says the author about the army, arguing that the problem is not Islam per se, but authoritarianism. But the answer goes, "If the army cannot be conducive of democracy due to its rigid, authoritarian structure, what can one say about Islam, a belief system where at the top sits an infallible God, whose word is final, whose authority is absolute, and whose agents on earth are never to be crossed or doubted? How can such a belief system be conducive of a free society?" Yes the problem is authoritarianism, and Islam suffers from it as much as the army does, if not more.
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Ramin Amini Aug 18, 2013

of course Islam is an authoritarianist religion.
“And there should be a group amongst you who invite towards good, order for acknowledged virtues, forbid from sin and these it is that are the successful ones” (Quran, Ale Imran: 104).
no true muslim shall tolerate an infidel. It was since muhammad the prophet and will always be.
they must never be let to take power even if the majority of the egyptions agrees to islamic laws.
Liberty is a human natural right not a choice (you cannot choose not to be free). the Muslim Brotherhood must have been banned before the democracy transition in egypt.
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Sergio Barbosa Aug 17, 2013

Dani: Toda religión tiene el ingrediente del autoritarismo. Este fenómeno se observa hasta en la Iglesia Católica en Occidente. Si una religión aspira a prevalecer debe conservar este poder que no admite cuestionamiento alguno de sus fieles. El problema con el Islam, es que existen grupos políticos en varias regiones del mundo que luchan por establecer sus preceptos para gobernar sociedades donde existen minorías que no comparten sus creencias o su extremismo religioso.
- hari naidu Aug 18, 2013
  
  Remember the Thirty Year's War - against the infidel Luther and his Hanseatic League (Protestants) - by none other than the Vatican (Catholic) funded Army of true believers.
  
  It ended finally in Munster with Westphalia Agreement.
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Ater Malekjok Aug 16, 2013

Your bad father's behavior is the problem, it is not your believes (Islam). says the prof in his title(The Problem is Authoritarianism, Not Islam, a prof of Social Science at Princeton. You have to prioritizes your believes to achieved your interest and the family,group,society, community and state is builds on these phases of the human values. The Middle East children go to school and they learn the values of the modern world of democracy,like those of them got their PH.D in the Western world,they go back to their homes and they heard what they heard they came back from their elementary school to their parents and that is son or daughter look into the world in the eyes of your beloved religious. Now, the best of our minds thinks religious has not to do with what happening in the Middle East.
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hari naidu Aug 14, 2013

In the Indian subcontinent we have witnessed, since 1947, the emergence of Pakistan as an Islamic or non-secular state out of British India....

Today Indian democracy is preparing public celebration of its 67th Independence Day - Pakistan is constraint by its internal (Islamic) social contradictions.

Yet, Indians and Pakistan are ancient *brothers* with not only a common language but a whole set of societal norms that are more or less common to both and demand due respect.

Secularism is a cause to which Gandhi and Nehru and Congress Party laid the foundation of the modern state.

Secularism is not politically acceptable in Pakistan - nor in the Middle East today, including Turkey. Can it be that Islamic fundamental doctrines doesn't allow or permit it.

I suppose, between the lines, Dani, born a Turk and adviser to Erdogan Government, is literally saying the West doesn't understand Islam and its fundamental doctrines.
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J St. Clair Aug 13, 2013

human rights......which human rights are we talking about.....the way i'm seeing it is that the issue of human rights is focused primarily on which leaders are to preside...
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Steven Antal Aug 13, 2013

While i agree with this statement, I have to disagree on the root of the problem (authoritarianism). Religion, all religions, are authoritarian by their very nature. As such, they are the primordial remnants of our primitive need to dominate and to hoard ( physical manifestations of fear). I enjoyed the read, but perhaps an investigation of human nature and its need to dominate and hoard would be a great future article, Keep up the great work.
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Bill Ellis Aug 13, 2013

Before I read this I want to say how much I like the headline. "The problem is Authoritarianism, not Islam."

What I like about it is that you can say the same about almost philosophy when taken to extreme. . The problem is Authoritarianism, not ..."fill in the blank".

No philosophy is immune.
- lee kus Aug 13, 2013
  
  We're now the US that tortures, imprisons whistleblowers, dpes warrantless spying on citizens, detains prisoners without charges, etc. Authoritarian now seems to be our default government.
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John Brian Shannon Aug 12, 2013

Hi Dani,

Thanks for getting us to the root of the problem -- and so elegantly.

I take it a step further. Criminal behavior, is criminal behavior. It is a simple equation.

One's religion hasn't the slightest thing to do with it.

A person will either commit a criminal act, or they will not commit a criminal act. That is what defines a criminal or non-criminal person.

If you accept that democracy is the ideal and legal state of a democratic country, (a democratic country, as defined by internationally-monitored and otherwise free and fair elections) then any tearing down of that democracy is almost certainly a criminal act, as force, or even deadly force, must be used to accomplish that tearing down of the democracy.

Resulting in something less than the democratically-elected government and a country that can no longer be called a democracy.

As you rightly point out, Dani; "Clever word games cannot hide the essence of what happened: a government that came to power in a fair election was overthrown by the army."

The fact that the government was unpopular at the time, is completely irrelevant. Many democratic governments the world over, face periods of voter displeasure.

Imagine the caterwauling that would have gone on, had Margaret Thatcher been removed at the low point in her popularity by U.S. abetted coup. The same goes for certain former U.S. Presidents, when their popularity ratings were at historic lows.

The moment the democratically-elected government was overthrown, Egypt ceased to become a democracy. A coup, is a coup, is a coup.

Aiding and abetting the coup-sters is just as bad as participating in the original coup.

It serves only to weaken democracies everywhere and for a long time to come.

And, as for the Islamist's, the West has proven beyond any reasonable doubt, that it only pays lip service to democracy and wants none other than it's own chosen or approved candidates to run in "democratic elections".

Proving that we the West, are no longer democratic, but plutocratic, and trying to force our plutocracy down the throats of the rest of the world.

As the year 1066 proved to be a pivotal year in the history books, so to, will 2013 prove to be a pivotal year. It is the year clearly identifiable when plutocracy usurped democracy.

Of course, it is not too late to go back and fix our (the West's) mistake. But with each passing day, that is less likely.

And for those who truly believe in democracy, that is a crying shame.

As always, very best regards, JBS
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George T. Sipos Aug 12, 2013

As the author does not really define what he means by "democracy," we must assume that he means "free election of governing representatives designated to protect the interests of those who elected them."

So, then, maybe, just maybe, the problem is with democracy itself, which seems to be an increasingly frustrating and disappointing concept for most of the demos (people) who is ostensibly in charge of it. Aren't we seeing this time and again, everywhere in the world? The number of voters who show up at the voting poles has been slowly but surely decreasing, leading to the election of those representing the majority of those who voted, not of the voting electorate.

We have seen it at the last US, UK, Japan elections: only 30 to 40% of the citizens who are eligible to vote do indeed bother to believe that their vote still means something.

We are so hard at work trying to insert our democracy wherever we don't agree with the locals' political choices that we forget that our democracy is ailing. Of course the problem is not Islam. Our style of democracy is the problem. And, unfortunately, I don't think we have any good alternative options for it.
- J St. Clair Aug 13, 2013
  
  i agree w/george t. sipos
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Moctar Aboubacar Aug 12, 2013

A very nice sideways rebuttal to Tony Blair's "The Trouble with Islam" on this very site.

I refuse to heap any more praise on the author, who found it opportune to announce that he was leaving Harvard on the very day that I decided that I would apply to HKS. (New Jersey is, I suppose, just a train ride away.)
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Abeer Rashdan Aug 12, 2013

The problem with Egypt that some developed countries like USA gave Morsi the political cover to violate the democratic process , even when Egyptians killed in front of Morsi's palace !!!. Egyptians felt that no inside or ouside way out except the army. Developed countries protect their interests before democracy in our countries .
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C'est l'autoritarisme qui pose problème, pas l'islam !

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