Protest against the arrest of two Catalan separatist leaders

Politics

Los que atacan a Europa desde adentro

Oct 17, 2017 Joschka Fischer

BERLÍN – Finalmente Europa da señales de estar saliendo de su prolongada crisis económica, pero el continente sigue agitado. Por cada motivo de optimismo siempre parece haber una nueva causa de preocupación.

En junio de 2016 una escasa mayoría de votantes británicos eligió la nostalgia por el siglo diecinueve por sobre lo que les pudiera prometer el siglo veintiuno. Decidieron saltar al precipicio en nombre de su “soberanía” y hay bastantes evidencias sugieren que les espera un aterrizaje forzoso. Los cínicos podrían hacer la observación de que será necesaria una “soberanía” en buenas condiciones para amortiguar el golpe.

En España, el gobierno de la región autónoma de Cataluña ahora pide soberanía también, aunque el actual gobierno nacional no está enjuiciando, encarcelando, torturando ni ejecutando al pueblo catalán, como lo hiciera la dictadura del Generalísimo Francisco Franco. España es una democracia estable y miembro de la Unión Europea, la eurozona y la OTAN. Durante décadas ha mantenido el estado de derecho de acuerdo a una constitución democrática negociada por todas las partes y regiones, incluida Cataluña.

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Understanding the Secessionist Surge
Pablo Blazquez Dominguez/Getty Images

Longer Reads 20

Understanding the Secessionist Surge

Edoardo Campanella
National self-determination was a key engine of twentieth-century geopolitics, driving the creation of many new countries after the two world wars, and again after the collapse of the Soviet Union. But, rather than correcting imperialist aberrations, most of today’s attempts at statehood pose a threat to global or regional stability.
argues that while the secession crises unfolding in Catalonia and Iraqi Kurdistan are reminiscent of twentieth-century ethno-nationalist schisms, they are also part of a wholly contemporary phenomenon.

new comment has been posted. new comments have been posted.

0 Comments on this paragraph, 50 Comments on this article

Robert Stephen Higgins Nov 27, 2017

This is a promotion of the socialist liberal world view that imagines everyone under one government that follows the ideology of course. That view ignores human nature, specifically the preference of people to be with their own kind. The nation-state has a theoretical basis having to do with the desires of people to keep a part of the planet for themselves because they are united by factors that say, "this is my country, my heritage, my land."
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alfons Cots Nov 4, 2017

Dear Mr. Fischer, 15 days after your opinion article has been published stating how good is the stable democracy in Spain and how it has maintained the rule of law (sic), 8 democratic elected members of the Catalonia Government have been jailed in a process lasting less than an hour without the least guarantees for the members of our elected parliament, adding to 2 more persons jailed by its political ideas (right now 10 political prisoners, ignominious), our democratic elected president is facing a detention order form its exile in Brussels. The most corrupt party in allover Europe has illegally and illegitimately took over Catalonia under a fascist article (article 155). Shame on you, that´s what happens when someone write bad and disinformed articles trying to keep and maintain the status quo, shame on you again. When you wake up from this nightmare it would be so late for saving Europe, that’s the start of a revolution, you act in consequence or you would collapse like the Soviet Union, not now, but not far away
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Robert Merrifield Oct 31, 2017

Herr Fischer shows how ignorant many at the heart of the EU club are of alternative views on how the EU should progress.

Far from wanting a retreat to the nineteenth (or eighteenth) century Brits simply want to retail their identity and control, within what they hope will evolve into a flourishing EU trade bloc. Those nations that wish to join together as an EU nation with one president, its own army and institutions remain free to do so post Brexit. So why chastise or penalise those that would simply be great economic partners?

Far from reducing independence and insisting unity is the only option Spain's government must work to develop a collaborative relationship with an autonomous Catalan state in the same way the EU must with Britain it wants to retain its influence here.

If a model is needed Spain need look no further than the relationships Britain enjoys with the Isle of Man, Channel Islands and Gibralter. Independence with allegiance.
- alfons Cots Nov 4, 2017
  
  More European integration, if possible -I have serious concerns about it- does not anything to do with Self-determination and new nation / states as it was the case of Czech Republic and Slovakia, Belgium and Holland, Austria and Hungary, and so on. Moreover, I think nations states as Catalonia, Finland, Netherlands etc, is the future of Europe and the only way Europe can save from it´s future collapse if all remains equal
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Hector Niehues-Jeuffroy Oct 26, 2017

Who decides if a territoriality is a nation-state or a region? The existing nation-states? Talk about a level playing field. The argument that the Spanish government isn't singling out Catalans for systematic persecution is the same type of argument that could have been used in the 19th and 20th century to deny Ireland, Poland, Czechia and half the Balkans statehood. However, Fischer is right on one point: the way forward is further European integration. Ironically, it is precisely European integration in the form of the devolvement of certain policy areas where national endeavours are inefficient or ineffective (foreign policy, security policy, trade, migration, energy) to the EU and the selective repatriation of other competencies to the national level that may provide a stepping stone for a more democratic and more regional Europe wherein regions depend less on their nation-states and more on Brussels.
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george sos Oct 24, 2017

Germans have ahard time refraining fromdictating to europeans what todo,it istheinheritance from their forefathers the nazis that still reign in germany.
So fuck your europe mr ex minister and fuck your "democracy" and"values".Hypocrite.
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Roger Houghton Oct 22, 2017

I am a supporter of Catalan independence because that is what a large majority of Catalans want. Herr Fischer says less than half of Catalans voted but that was after Madrid had acted to prevent the vote. Europe purports to be a collection of democratic countries but not one of them really likes the consequences and management inconvenience of democracy. Switzerland and the Scandinavians have long been said to be more democratic but there has been a lurch to the right in all those countries (query Finland?) at the top of government where a handful of 'safe pairs of hands' try to square the circle of globalist demands with their citizens' demands.

Does anyone remember that fine economist O F Schumacher and his book “Small is Beautiful”? If we really want to sell democracy as the best system to govern the planet, we have to tolerate its inconveniences. Its the same in economics as the whole country.

Recently we have seen the nation state under serious and continuous attack from globalists. Its not just the money we use and its constantly disappearing value, its the waste on defence posture, the waste on ideology about which we do not care a hoot and the constant financial efforts to disable the poorer countries with our mindlessly placed money. All that ensures is their continuing mismanagement.

We should look again at our basic governmental structures and mold them to the things we really care about - human rights, healthcare, housing, jobs, water and food - and that in my opinion is most easily and effectively done by small units, starting with the US/French revolutionary idea of primary assemblies. I view the EU as an achievement and do not wish to see it ended but the effort of regulating 28 countries might just as well be 280 countries if that is the wish of Europeans.
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
  
  I find myself largely in agreement with this.
  
  What damages the EU project more that anything else is the obsessive centralisation of power in the name of control and social order.
  
  The Euro for example has been a disaster, not because it's a bad idea, but because of the way it was introduced. Had it been just 'there' to be used as an alternative currency all countries would be free to use it (in effect they do anyway to some extent) If it was working well it would have gradually made the national currencies redundant in gradual stages. The UK stayed out in the interests of self-preservation and rightly so. The Euro without Sterling is inherently weaker for everyone. That was big opportunity wasted completely.
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Roger Houghton Oct 22, 2017

I am a supporter of Catalan independence because that is what a large majority of Catalans want. Herr Fischer says less than half of Catalans voted but that was after Madrid had acted to prevent the vote. Europe purports to be a collection of democratic countries but not one of them really likes the consequences and management inconvenience of democracy. Switzerland and the Scandinavians have long been said to be more democratic but there has been a lurch to the right in all those countries (query Finland?) at the top of government where a handful of 'safe pairs of hands' try to square the circle of globalist demands with their citizens' demands.

Does anyone remember that fine economist O F Schumacher and his book “Small is Beautiful”? If we really want to sell democracy as the best system to govern the planet, we have to tolerate its inconveniences. Its the same in economics as the whole country.

Recently we have seen the nation state under serious and continuous attack from globalists. Its not just the money we use and its constantly disappearing value, its the waste on defence posture, the waste on ideology about which we do not care a hoot and the constant financial efforts to disable the poorer countries with our mindlessly placed money. All that ensures is their continuing mismanagement.

We should look again at our basic governmental structures and mold them to the things we really care about - human rights, healthcare, housing, jobs, water and food - and that in my opinion is most easily and effectively done by small units, starting with the US/French revolutionary idea of primary assemblies. I view the EU as an achievement and do not wish to see it ended but the effort of regulating 28 countries might just as well be 280 countries if that is the wish of Europeans.
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Colin Rafferty Oct 22, 2017

You can't legitimately complain of voter turnout while giving short shrift to the brutal voter suppression. Or complain that it would destabilize the EU because the EU would choose to spite their own face.

And do you really anticipate a civil war, as in Yugoslavia? You choose to imply it, but can't quite stomach stating it directly. Because it is absurd.
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alfons Cots Oct 22, 2017

The fact that a former member of a democratic parliament like you states that Spain is a stable democracy in a country run by a party with 700 members with open corruption causes in court, with a judicial system ranking below china, that jail people because its political ideas should embarrass you, and is certainly something to be afraid. I am not a supporter of independence neither a unionist, but the fact that people like you disregard what kind of democracy is Spain (it is not) explains the increasing retreat of democracy in Europe, the rise of its populist parties and the future collapse of Europe. You should be concerned about defending people and democracy, and instead people like you is concerned in building up (or sustaining ) an ailing Europe undermining its basic pillar (democracy) Europe will collapse and it will be the fault of people like you that is not at the height of its responsibility, not of the people that pacifically takes on the street to ask for democratic means (referendum ) for self-determination, good luck Europe, Britain took a savvy decision thinking that Britons do not know what they vote for is illustrated despotism, that is what Europe has become, and it will implosion, not in 5 years, but in the long run for sure, all of us know how badly ends retreat of democracy,
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
  
  I think that's about right.
  Too much centralisation of power without responsibility and democratic accountability.
  
  Too much of the fundamental bureaucracy of the EU is just not democratic.
  
  We don't like it. We don't trust it. And it will eventually crumble because of its inherent lack of mutual consent.
  
  It will be a great shame. A fantastic opportunity to create a much better Europe is being flushed down the toilet of history.
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- Barry Rosenfeld Oct 22, 2017
  
  Exactly! Spain had many years of "stability" under regimes known as "Inquisition" and "Falange." Fischer is representative of the sclerotic EU, an aging, bureaucratic mass of technocrats and recycled politicos. The actions of the Rajoy clique in Catalonia, sending in what is, in effect, an army of occupation, is more representative of colonialism than any notion of "democracy." As with many countries, Spain is a congeries of regions, a state based on a history of conquest - as is China, India, and the US.
  
  Perhaps it is time for the EU to rethink what is a country, nation and state. As well, maybe Project syndicate should refresh its list of contributors. One gets tired of the same names recycling the same ideas.
  - Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
    
    I'll drink to that. Tired old men (and some tired old women) recycling the same unimaginative twaddle.
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John Ellis Oct 22, 2017

The Catalonian problem seems likely to die on the vine. There is no way the Spanish government is going to allow Catalonia to become independent. Then the Catalonian leadership seems singularly buffoonish; a strange mixture of far left utopians and right wing fundamentalists continually arguing among themselves. Already some 1000 businesses have technically re-located outside the region including some of the largest banks. Rajoy will undoubtedly get his vote of approval in the next few days and all he needs to do is gradually pursue a policy of attrition against the separatists and take control of the key offices of government like police and security.
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
  
  John Ellis, I think your comments typify a patronising attitude towards separatists who are seriously disenchanted with centralised and distant governments.
  If the Catalans want 'out' it signals a serial failure of Madrid to take Catalan concerns seriously. Catalans feel excluded from greater Spain and are responding in a way which I think is entirely rational.
  
  To suggest Catalonia is not a viable 'national unit' is almost certainly not correct. If an independent Catalonia were to be established and then fail economically it would almost certainly be because of deliberate malice on the part of external forces.
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albert garcia pujol Oct 22, 2017

The statement of Mr. J. Fisher about the goodness of spanish democracy is just a falsehood. And, yes, today spanish goverment is prosecuting and imprisoning. Bad, very bad Mr Fisher. Shame. Please note: I did NOT vote for independence).
Thank you.
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
  
  Albert,
  
  Quite right. If Spanish democracy was healthy why would so many Catalans wish to be free of it?
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Andrew Cole Oct 22, 2017

An inflammatory heading to the article. Luxembourg & Malta are not more worthy cases for being nation state than Catalonia.
The hijack of free trade and it corruption into Mercantilism, and then the use of that to threaten destruction to maintain political control is cruel disgusting and Fascistic.
The Axis of Germany, France, and Spain have been misusing their position in an appalling way, and this has escalated using the premeditated conduit of the Lisbon treaty.
It would be nice if the Catalonian issue could have been sorted out by actually carrying out the original devolution agreement, but I suspect that the brutality, apparently supported by Germany and France has stopped that.
The idea that Brexit is somehow independent of German and French bullying is hardly credible. German foreign policy has been "no to a British Europe" for decades. England was faced with an EU estimate of 2/3 of its population increase due to mass migration, and cannot cope with the housing crisis and democratic deficit evidenced when a German Chancellor leading a party that obtained 7 years exemption from freedom of movement, arrived to say freedom of movement was a fundamental principle so no deal, no compromise.
So for me the author was part of the problem and does not seem to be able to stop himself from making it worse.
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
  
  Yanis Varoufakis makes the point in one of his books that the EU project was conceived fundamentally as an attempt by France to rein in the power of Germany.
  
  Obviously an oversimplification of where we are now, but much of the current situation (not just in Spain) could well be understood as a symptom of that objective working out.
  
  Conflict between Germany and France has a long history of very expensive resolutions which have caused havoc throughout Europe and beyond.
  
  Spain, the UK and Italy have also been major players in this 'game'and share the blame for its being a...... mess. (to put it mildly)
  - Steve Hurst Oct 23, 2017
    
    Yes, it was the Monnet Plan adopted by de Gaulle. The early French plans were concerned with keeping Germany weak and strengthening the French economy at the expense of that of Germany. I am sure the Germans have not forgotten this.
    - Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
      
      The Germans seem very capable of forgetting what they find inconvenient. (But don't we all?)
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Bernhard Kopp Oct 20, 2017

As long as Catalans appear to be unable to get along with Madrid, it is reasonable to assume that they are unable to get along with anybody. Capricious political juveniles. They do not even have a rudimentary understanding of democratic legitimacy of a 'referendum' . For a secession, it appears as a minimal requirement that there is a minimum voter participation of 80%, and of votes cast a qualified majority of 66.66%. Otherwise a result would not represent the majority of the voting population. The Tories, with Brexit, did the same stupid thing, which is however no excuse to act equally stupid. Catalans undertook an 'anarchic referendum' in several different ways which qualifies as a perversion of democracy.
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
  
  Bernard Kopp,
  Sorry Bernhard I think that's just total nonsense. I can't agree with that.
  
  The boot I suspect belongs firmly on the other foot. Madrid is set in aspic and thinks it has a divine right to govern. It doesn't. And steadfastly refuses to talk.
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- Barry Rosenfeld Oct 22, 2017
  
  They were denied a legitimate one. Where did you get the notion that 2/3 majority was a good departure point for a separation referendum. In a democracy, 50% +1 of those who bother to vote is normally considered a majority.
  
  Merkel received only 35% of the vote in the past federal election, but she was considered the "winner," a far cry from 66.6% much less a majority. By the way, did 80% of the German electorate bother to vote? Why should the standards of "democracy" change according to the type of election? The purpose of the super-majorities needed to amend the US Constitution, for example, is precisely to avoid changes. Is that what you really want in a "democracy?"
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maria prada Oct 20, 2017

I always appreciated (in German and in Germany) your points of view, but here you are totally off, and plainly misinformed. Someone mentioned already the industrialization of Catalonia way before the EU was even a dream. Did you know that Mr. Rajoy gambled with Spain's unity and sovreignity, two themes dear to the Spanish right to defeat Mr Zapatero and the Socialist Party in 2006? He did so by sacrificing an already passed concept in the Statute that referred to Catalonia as a demos, as a nation, as a people. We would not be here if it were not for Mr. Rajoy's political (and corrupt, and Teflon-like) ambition.
The PSOE could solve the conflict but will not do so to safeguard its electoral base.
There is much more to your article, but let me finish here by mentioning the widely debated crisis of the nation-state, and that absent a debate in Europe on peoples, nations and identities, the EU will continue to have to face the worst populisms and nationalisms and also peaceful quests for more sovereignty like Catalonia's.
This is what will kill the European project, not being a union of 50 states like the US, or for that matter 80 or 90.
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hugh sheehy Oct 20, 2017

The article if full of contradictions and unsupported assertions.

Yes, the UK wanting to leave the EU is historically daft, but as a nation state it's perfectly entitled to do so. What's sad is that several regions (all but one, actually) of the UK do want to stay in the EU and currently cannot.

And as for the EU, I fully agree that the aim should be to transcend the nation state and have a shared European polity. But in that event, whether the EU consists of 27 nations or 34 nations is largely irrelevant on any historical timeframe. Plus, the long forgotten principle of subsidiarity would imply that the nation state should be less powerful and the regions more powerful, unless we're trying to have a powerful centralized European state - which I fear is wildly politically dangerous. There can be a standard set of rules for all Europe at a high level and locally adapted rules at a local level and the nation state becomes trapped in between and eventually less relevant.

Now, on Catalunya, whether or not you agree with the benefits of Catalan independence, there's obviously a major issue which has been peacefully expressed in massive scale for years now (and ignored by the Spanish govt). Currently the Spanish government is holding leaders of huge peaceful organisations on charges of sedition, which is hardly compatible with an idea of Spain as a modern democracy. The referendum was illegal under Spanish law, but that merely needed to mean that any result had no legal validity. The Spanish govt beat the crap out of people trying to vote. Why? Almost certainly because they were afraid to let an accurate measure of voter intentions take place. That was a conscious choice, hardly a demonstration of democratic principles. Talks could have taken place before, or after, but there was no need to beat people.

Then, there's this repeated claim that an independent Catalunya would be excluded from the EU. This is a bureaucratic claim only and is both historically and geographically idiotic. Yes, Catalunya would not immediately be a signatory state to the treaties. But the territory of Catalunya is already in the EU and the citizens of Catalunya would remain citizens of the EU through their (remaining) Spanish citizenship. Plus, fast forward 10 years and Catalunya would be in the EU so there's absolutely no point keeping Catalunya out in the first place. Plus, geographically, Catalunya blocks the main road and the trainline between France and Spain. Erecting customs posts on the borders would be economic idiocy. And Barcelona is the main port on that whole coast, for Spain as well as Catalunya. Madness to suggest "Oh yeah, we'll keep Catalunya out of the EU". It can only be asserted as a threat.

As for the breakup of Yugoslavia, or the history of Ireland, they give us great hints how the breakup of a state could be managed better. Instead of "f*ck you" being the main approach, we could try "Hmm. I guess we could be best of friends that way too." If Germany broke up into regions then the discussions of inter-region transfers could and would take place at an EU level, rather than within Germany. Just as difficult, probably, but essentially exactly the same.

Catalan independence may indeed not have majority support among the voters of Catalunya, but to put administrative preference or bureaucratic preference above democratic principles is a betrayal of the most important idea behind the EU - which is that Europeans can live together peacefully with democratic institutions.

Denying democracy because it doesn't suit what the administrative functions find most convenient is both morally obnoxious and politically dangerous.
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
  
  Well said. And absolutely spot on correct in almost every detail.
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- Peter Ellis Oct 22, 2017
  
  The only problem is that Catalonia has not overtly expressed some of these points in public and therefore, to the outside world, it is acting irrationally and illegally - the referendum was a farce administratively and by any democratic standard is fairly meaningless. What the situation shows is that a region trying to do what Catalonia is doing, without paving the way with considerable intellectual investigation amongst both the nations and within the EU, is destabilising and little help in advancing some of the good points you make about 'Europe' could develop.
  - Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
    
    Petr,
    
    I suspect the Catalans have found it very difficult to air their opinions and instigate a dialogue around the issues they feel are problematic.
    
    Donald Trump said of the American media that it served 'the people' very badly. I think the same is true of much of the European media. It's certainly true of the UK.
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Bernardino Ríos Oct 20, 2017

Mr Fischer, respectfully, you are misinformed : "Catalonia owes most of its economic success to Spain’s accession to the EU in 1986." Is is the opposite; the Catalan industry took off in the 19th century thanks mainly to the highest import-duties that there were in the West, approved in the Madrid Parliament (by politicians duly bribed by Catalan industrialists) supposedly to favour a concentration of wealth and to permit reaching international competitiveness in Catalonia that would later act as the locomotive for the other Spanish regions; unfortunately the Catalan industry never became competitive (today any Spaniard can buy a German product in the German website www.violey.com with much better quality and at half-price than its Catalan equivalent even if it is transported from a place 2 000 kms farther away in central Germany) and that has become evident precisely when the Catalan industry was stripped of import duties after, as you say, "Spain's accession to the EU in 1986". Spain was over 100 years the most protectionist western country to the exclusive benefit of Catalonia and to the detriment of all the other regions of Spain that saw their development blocked; in addition the industrial workforce migrating to Catalonia from other regions were badly abused salary-wise by Catalans and treated as second-class citizens; now, without import-duty protection Spaniards buy less and less Catalan and these cannot afford their lifestyle, hence their demand for more money; the EU liberalisation tide has exposed the Catalan industry was swimming naked.
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albert.pinyol Oct 19, 2017

Mr. Fischer perspective reminds of that delivered in Europe's mainstream media, DieWelt, NZZ, FT, NYT, (namely of Ms. Ute Müller, or Raphael Minder). Based in Madrid they have been informing about Catalonia from a Madrid-perspective and without knowing Catalan language, hence presumably based on Castillian sources (literally all of them against CAT-independence).
Their accounts on Cat independence are as accurate as those of a Moscow-based journalist speaking russian-only and describing the Fall of Berlin's Wall from a sovietic perspective.
... Or if you prefer as accurate as those of a Belgrade-based correspondent speaking Serbian-only and accounting on Kosovo from a Serbian perspective.
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Henk Crop Oct 19, 2017

Attackers from within ? Who is attacking ? I am addressing the Brexit here and the mounting resistance against the EU, because I did not follow the Catalania situation close enough to have an opinion.
No one is attacking but people are forced to leave or resist the EU regulations forced upon them by the Brussel Elite.
The UK, like many other countries, had trouble with the unlimited immigration.
The EU Elite, refused to help solving that problem, instead they organised a wall of resistance around their theoretical principle of freedom of movement of people.
So, you could say it is the EU Elite, in particular the EU Commission, attacking the members states and their people, which are actually their clients.
The Brexit is damaging for both the EU and the UK.
In the UK people need a reality check. The Government should explain what the consequences will be of a Brexit. I have not seen many feasable plans sofar.
For the EU the Brexit is a blow to the EU Commission, whose task it is to keep everybody together.
I think mr. Juncker, as leader of the Commission, should step down.
It is also pointless that he remains to be involved in Brexit negotiations.

If anything, the Europeans' shared commitment to liberty and democracy are under attack by the, mainly, self appointed EU Elite.
- The Common market is fantastic.
- Trade deals with China, the US and others are great.
- So are large R&D projects and cooperation on crime fighting.
- The National Parliaments need stronger position
What we do not need.
- A transfer Union. Aid is fine but not in unlimited quatities
- The Euro. It has been a disaster and there is no need for it. National currencies give more flexiblity.
- Practical limits on the application of EU values. Especially on immigration.
The massive population explosion makes current immigration policy unsustainable.
That foreign countries, Turkey and Lybia, have to protect the EU borders.
- The EU must remain a cooperation based on Christian and secular values.
No expansion of the EU or immigration that does not support these values.
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
  
  Totally agree. How do we have idiots running the EU so badly.
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cheat truth Oct 18, 2017

“They sow the wind and reap the whirlwind. The stalk has no head; it will produce no flour. Were it to yield grain, foreigners would swallow it up."
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Paul Martin Oct 17, 2017

Well, if you, Joshka Fischer, would not have pushed with the full might of Germany and NATO, for the utterly illegal "independance" of Kosovo, this problem now in Catalonia would not exist.
Thus, stopp kidding !
- Sasa Zrilic Oct 18, 2017
  
  Hej Paul. Thank you for reminding us of that debacle. This 90's-amnesia is becoming irritating. It is like Yugoslavia never existed.
  - Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
    
    We all have very short memories when it suits us.
    
    Sad but true.
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Steve Hurst Oct 17, 2017

'Yet even in Germany, nothing is as cumbersome and difficult as the never-ending negotiations over fiscal transfers between the federal government and individual states – which is to say, between richer and poorer regions.' JF

I see, fiscal transfers rich to poor are in order as long as the mechanism is contained within the German Borders. Can you explain how this functions in the larger EZ where it is fundamentally needed in order for the common currency to sustainably function.

As for Catalonia. The EU position was well given by Junckers who said he thought more members was a an administrative issue, too hell with democracy eh.

'On October 1, the Catalan government held an independence referendum in which less than half – some estimates say a third – of the region’s population participated. By the standards of the EU and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the vote could never be accepted as “free and fair.”...' Perhaps the baton brigade impeded access, but you know about batons so please comment. Its not the Putzgruppe busy, its the Police using the batons.

I find it interesting that Catalonia is denied access to the EU if independent, they seem a more sorted bunch than some of the raggle taggle outfits you have encouraged to join. Are you seriously saying Ukraine is a better match than Catalonia. BTW if Catalonia is too small a player best do something about Luxembourg, 1/10th of the size of Catalonia.

Then there is the comedy section - 'To be sure, money is important. But it is not as important as Europeans’ shared commitment to liberty, democracy, and the rule of law'... 'on whether Europeans will fight for these values'. JF, nobody is going to fight for a European Flag. Nobody, it means nothing. However they will fight for their own flag and identity. Your use of language is interesting. European values appears to mean those proselytised by Brussels and Berlin. Can I suggest a number of citizens are increasingly concerned about EU geopolitics and aspirations and being told a fixed thought menu and thought diet is what they need

The reality is the EU thought mongers are terrified their federal dream is going to fall apart. Bit like the Roman Empire eh. Barbarians at the gates with their strange faith, self determination. The intriguing thing in Catalonia is why didnt Madrid let the referendum go ahead if they were confident only a minority would vote indie. If that had indeed happened it would be job done, no indie. Instead they were desperate enough to give the World a thuggee Franco like display, with a true-to-type message of domestic violence. You might note JF, that Thuggee means concealment in Sanskrit, so what were they trying to conceal, or was it just raw brutality.
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
  
  Many rational and cogent points here, Steve.
  
  It would be good to think that JF actually takes note of feedback. I suspect though that he doesn't and won't.
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jagjeet sinha Oct 17, 2017

REMEDIES MUST BE REAL
The analysis is flawless.
The arguments are impeccable.
But the deck is stacked.
Hence Greece was lost to austerity.
Hence Brexit happened due Unlimited Migration.
Hence Catalonia has happened due false hopes from fake capitals.
But the core remains on track - Bread is buttered in Berlin.

In 2006, DAX = CAC = FTSE = 5000 each.
That is, Germany = France = Britain.
In 2017, DAX = 13000 while CAC = 5300 & FTSE = 7500.
That is, Germany = France plus Britain.

History is replete with consequences when the deck is so stacked.
Truth is revealed when Authority is challenged.
Brussels has changed the Game. 1945 - 2015 is over.
Peace n Prosperity of Seven Decades is in peril.
Unless remedies are REAL, there will be consequences.
BREXIT Greece Catalonia are symptoms of disease.
Requiring real remedies.
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
  
  Over and again on Project Syndicate I see quite sensible analysis of issues produce 'conclusions' which are gibberish.
  
  There's a serious disconnect in economic and political circles. It seems the erstwhile intelligent have somehow lost the skill of making rational connections.
  
  Perhaps 'Philosophy' needs to be placed centrally on the academic curriculum. Across all disciplines.
  - jagjeet sinha Oct 23, 2017
    
    Indeed - but not to worry. Politics is the art of looking for problems, finding them, diagnosing incorrectly, then applying the wrong remedies. BUT........
    TRUTH IS INCONTROVERTIBLE.
    Malice may attack it.
    Ignorance may deride it.
    IN THE END, THERE IT IS.
    Sir Winston Churchill.
    
    Truth defends itself. Truth always wins, in the end.
    The European Union is built on virtual reality.
    The Anglosphere abandonment is overdue since 15 August 1971.
    Meltdown is the only language they have understood - for 500 years.
    Madrid Paris Rome Berlin - have created Brussels, for only one reason.
    Without The Anglosphere - Brussels is Waterloo.
    - Andrew (Andy) Crow Oct 23, 2017
      
      Well I couldn't possibly have said that in those terms, but I'm certainly not arguing with what you say.
      - jagjeet sinha Oct 25, 2017
        
        Unfortunate that Peace n Prosperity is in peril every 100 years.
        Change unfortunately is the only permanence.
        
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Bernhard Kopp Oct 17, 2017

Any referendum on an issue that could not easily be reversed in another legislative term, like Brexit, like secession, or like a change from monarchy to republic needs to be very carefully crafted with (1) a relatively high voter participation as a condition of validity, and, (2) a qualified majority as customary for changes of the constitution. Without such conditions, it might be a minimum voter participation of 80%, and a qualified majority of 2/3 of the votes cast, an 'anarchic referendum' becomes a mockery of democracy, a perversion of it. The Catalans did not consider that. And, it is particularly sad the Eton-Oxbridge-elite of the Conservative Party in Britain did not understand that.
- P. Kamath Oct 18, 2017
  
  Good points indeed! I think Spanish govt. should read about what happened in Québécois drive for separation from Canada! After the initial Referendum vote when separatists lost by a fraction of vote, Canadian federal govt. woke up and thoroughly placed a realistic bar in future referendums.
  It is different now and even Québécois are very careful and realistic!
  Good luck Spain and Catalonia. Think before you jump!
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