Comments 17

EU en Groot-Brittannië zijn allebei gebaat bij een “zachte” Brexit

Jul 4, 2017 Joschka Fischer

BERLIJN – De politiek brengt bij iedereen krachtige emoties teweeg. Zelfs de Britten zijn daar, ondanks hun reputatie dat ze hun belangen op een onderkoelde en kalme manier kunnen nastreven, klaarblijkelijk niet immuun voor. Misschien is deze reputatie louter een overblijfsel van het reeds lang geleden verloren gegane Britse imperium. Zij geldt beslist niet voor het Verenigd Koninkrijk van 2017.

Neem de politieke besluiten die de Britten het afgelopen jaar hebben genomen. Vorig jaar juni besloten ze – zij het met slechts een kleine meerderheid – om zich terug te trekken uit de Europese Unie. De vervroegde algemene verkiezingen van vorige maand leverden een uitkomst op die de indruk alleen maar versterkt dat het Britse pragmatisme op zijn retour is.

Die verkiezingen – waarbij de Conservatieven hun meerderheid kwijtraakten, hetgeen resulteerde in een zogenoemd “hung parliament” – duiden erop hoe ver de politieke klasse van de rest van het land verwijderd is geraakt. Groot-Brittannië lijkt niet alleen een politieke en een identiteitscrisis te ondergaan, maar ook een crisis van vertrouwen in zijn politieke en economische elites, die is begonnen met de mondiale financiële crisis van 2008.

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Joschka Fischer

Writing for PS since 2006
153 Commentaries

Joschka Fischer was German Foreign Minister and Vice Chancellor from 1998-2005, a term marked by Germany's strong support for NATO's intervention in Kosovo in 1999, followed by its opposition to the war in Iraq. Fischer entered electoral politics after participating in the anti-establishment protests of the 1960s and 1970s, and played a key role in founding Germany's Green Party, which he led for almost two decades.

Adrian Dennis/AFP/Getty Images

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0 Comments on this paragraph, 17 in all 17 Comments on this article

Tim Bowler Jul 25, 2017

It's a good article from Fischer pointing out the problems Britain has heaped upon itself by bizarrely voting to leave the world's most successful trading bloc for - what? A mess of pottage cooked up by a biased and lying tabloid press over 30 years - and a terrible education system which is not giving enough Brits the tools they need to compete in the global marketplace.

And that's before we mention Farage and the rest.

Perhaps it will be possible to salvage something from the mess. Let us hope for Europe's sake (both UK and EU) that this can be done.
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Christine Constable Jul 21, 2017

Mr. Fischer listening to the quite disgraceful tone of this article I hope for the UK that it leaves the sinking ship that is the EU and let's Germany, who imagines it is now time for a EU renaissance to carry on running Europe into the ground.

I can assure you that the UK will have no lack of potential tradespeople with whom to negotiate with when the UK turns its back on the EU, for many of us we have seen what a ghastly Germano/French construct it is, designed purely to meet the needs of Germany - no one else. The structure of the EU with its over paid failed national politicians (mostly socialist) calling the shots as Commissioners, asking the barely literate members of the EU Parliament to "endorse" policies over which they have no input is a farce and will become more ridiculous as time moved on. Germany may imagine it is some kind of "new liberalism" in Europe, overly exaggerated I am sure to compensate for the extermination policies of the past, but the German people do not necessarily share the liberal nightmare of Mr Fischer as the AFD and Ultras attest.
The UK voted to leave the EU for very good reasons. The people of the UK have been lied to for decades about the true nature of the EU and until last June, no one in the UK had ever had a chance to vote on the direction of the EU. The verdict was that we do not want to become a Lande of Europe, where Britishness becomes nothing more than a quaint regional aberration. Unlike the Germans we do not happen to despise our national identity, nor do we find that being British, or dare I say English is something to be embarrassed about. What we do object to is to barely qualified people like Shultz (former bookshop owner) and the career politician Verhofstadt (never had a real job) telling the other countries in the EU how to run their affairs, without the decency of even being elected.
The EU had its chance to demonstrate it was not an authoritarian political structure when Cameron came on his whistle stop tour to say that the UK had to control immigration because it was destroying the country and forcing many of our own people out of work. We explained the mad "once size fits all" approach was starting to create real problems and a more bespoke approach to the EU was needed. We flagged up that it was costing too much, and that the EU was getting more and more impoverished countries into the sphere of Europe, with Albania; Ukraine and other Balkan countries in the frame, the EU was now top heavy with impoverished needy accession countries.
We were worried about majority voting, with so few donors and so many takers it was looking like the beggars where controlling the cash and that model is a sure way for disaster. We flagged up worries about the Euro, every concern has been kicked into the long grass, meanwhile Germany and the ECB see vast debts growing for the German taxpayer over 540 Billion Euros and growing - sooner or later there will be a devastating explosion.
The EU has been mismanagement personified. Sanctimonious politicians particularly from Europe are presiding over chaos which they are dressing up as success. Misery for Greece and Italy and others on the cusp of disaster.

Had the EU listened and had some humility about it it may have been able to rescue the UK situation, even now idiots like Barnier are driving the EU over a cliff, as others watch at the bullying and school yard behaviour that makes the EU such a dead duck. A few months ago the UK may have been amendable to a better offer given the cash they had put in, the money they had invested in the EU and the importance of the nation to the integrity and reputation of the EU. Merkel, too arrogant and France too indebted to recognise it made sense to keep the UK on side forced a much harder line which is now being copied by the nation itself. Increasingly and as each day passes in the farce that is the negotiations with the EU everyone in the world can see the EU is losing the plot, incompetent, indebted, red tape bound, protectionist, leaderless and fractured the UK is well out of it, and as for imagining the UK is harking back to a long gone Empire, you could not be more wrong (an Empire I might had Germany never ever managed to develop - and every time it did it by force it ended in disaster - the EU Germany's Empire will be built on sand if it tries the same tactics!
The UK can become a Global State, engaged more tightly with the Anglosphere and the Commonwealth and if Germany and France had any sense, they would seek a mutually beneficial relationship and accept that the EU did much to make the UK leave, because it simply would not listen - and that my friends is a fatal error - listen and act, not ignore the populous.
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Nov 1, 2017
  
  I can't hear a disgraceful tone from Herr Fischer.
  
  He does rather ignore the underlying foundational weakness of the EU which is it's dreadful failure to build any genuine democratic accountability into its structure.
  
  I liken the EU to a grand palace with fine rococo architectural features but poor footings.
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- K. Bauer Aug 24, 2017
  
  Sadly, more and more often you face a comment in the rhetoric style of Ms. Constables post in the internet. You really compain about a "disgraceful tone of this article"? Interesting...
  Just one thing that always striked me when I was in the UK and that you can witness in Ms. Constables comment. Brexiteers (sorry for the phrase) seem to assume that Germany (or France,etc.) want an "United States of Europe". Besides some extreme ideologists it is clear to anyone that this would never work and is not the goal. The EU is quite different from the US - and rightly so. After all we are not part of the 'Anglospehre' as you pointed out. The diversity of Europes countries (e.g languages) doesn't allow such a construct.
  But - we are "better together" (irony included) in terms of individual freedom, peace/security and trade.
  
  What Europe really doesn't need is the type of 'experience' of the British Empire. Sorry, but the world outside Europe suffered enough from that. Let's evolve and try something new.
  - Christine Constable Feb 15, 2019
    
    Sadly, the EU has not been original in its approach to a "better together" association. While you say that the EU does not have aspirations for a United States of Europe I can only suggest you speak with Mr Junker https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/junker-reveals-his-vision-for-a-united-states-of-europe-k9q9p9l3w
    
    He holds a responsible role in Europe and if the British is to be persuaded this is not the opaque end state then (frankly) Junker needs urgently gagging and repudiating.
    
    The creation of the EU from an EEC leaves many n Britain confused and betrayed. As a well known German MEP told me, Britain joined a football club and the rest of Europe went off to play golf. This state of affairs is unacceptable and the bad faith of Europe, pretending that it was one thing then turning into something else is not the kind of trust and faith anyone can have in the EU.
    
    I agree totally "better together" makes sense, but when Brussels presumes to run our country; our migration; trade and legislative policies one has to wonder where our sovereignty and self determination went and that by stealth we are simply a vassal state of an unelected autocracy that usurped the high ideals.
    
    Britain suffered too badly to have the rug pulled from under us, if the EU forces our hand it will regret the misery it will unleash, the British are very patient but when we snap the house comes down, if we are threatened, bullied or abused this will change the stability we have enjoyed for the last 80 years.
    
    Germany needs to be more humble and contrite in its treatment of the UK, the UK waived war reparations and has shouldered the defence of Europe while Germany feathered its economic nest, now it is our turn to be respected, we have lost too many people, paid too much money and bent over to easily for Europe - now we want compromise not economicwarfare and without compromise we have unrest. Germany now has to step up to the plate and resolve the impasse with a generous deal.
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- jagjeet sinha Jul 24, 2017
  
  + 2 000 000 000
  Berating One Empire is a Business Plan - TO CREATE THEIR OWN EMPIRE.
  The Dollar Standard was demolished in 1971 - TO CREATE THEIR OWN CURRENCY.
  With THE ANGLOSPHERE underwriting security of The Brussels Empire - with NATO.
  Fortunately, The Brussels Empire is unable to replace PlanetEnglish.
  The Empire of One Language - nearly Two Billion - cannot be ambushed.
  After the First Brexit 500 years ago, Britain rightly built The Empire of One Language - The Anglosphere.
  The Anglosphere is The Truth - and The Brussels Empire has no chance confronting Two Billion.
  JS
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j. von Hettlingen Jul 9, 2017

Joschka Fischer says he can hardly recognise the Britain and its people that used to be known "for pursuing their interests in a cool and calm fashion." He says this "reputation is merely a holdover from the long-gone British Empire." But many of those who voted for Brexit had been duped by the anti-EU press and lost their minds over Britain's sovereignty - taking back control of their country .
The true duty of Britain’s pluralistic press is supposed to furnish voters with the information necessary to make an informed choice on whom to vote for in an election or referendum.
If "British pragmatism is in retreat," this English quaintness in politics isn't. It was nostalgia that motivated nearly 51.9% of Britons to cast a no-vote to EU in June 2016. It was anxiety that urged many to vote for Labour in June 2017, sending a message to Theresa May that they reject her hard Brexit.
According to Fischer "the UK appears to be undergoing not just a political and identity crisis, but also a crisis of confidence in its political and economic elites, which began with the 2008 global financial crisis." But the eurosceptic press is the voice of the establishment and the wealthy seeking to denigrate and distort the words of those people who wanted to make sense and warn against the risks of leaving Europe's single market and customs union.
As Britain is due to leave with as-yet unknowable relations with the EU, no third parties are willing to strike deals with Theresa May's government, despite her efforts to reach out to them. On the sidelines of the G20 summit in Hamburg, May and Trump held a bilateral meeting, during which Trump said he expected a trade deal with the UK to be completed “very, very quickly.”
But given Trump "protectionist rhetoric, the importance of maintaining access to Europe’s single market would seem to be more acute than ever." Besides, Britain is in a weak position and nobody knows when the bilateral deal with the US be materialised. But it can never be quick enough to appease May, who is under pressure to forge new ties to replace those that Britain has with the EU in case of a hard Brexit.
Today Britain isn't exactly teeming with optimism. As a matter of fact, "it is becoming increasingly clear that it stands to lose a great deal, economically and politically. And for what?" Many are doing some soul searching and ask themselves the question.
The author says Brexit cuts both ways, leaving the EU as vulnerable to economic challenges as Britain. "The EU will lose its second-largest economy and primary guarantor of security." There is hope that Emmanuel Macron’s election "will blunt some of the pain from Brexit." Since his election, "positive economic news from the eurozone" has emerged, which "represents an unexpected opportunity for a fresh start within the EU" which will be joined by Germany after its September election. In this regard many Britons might change their minds about the EU.
The author urges both sides to settle for an amicable divorce, and avoid inflicting wounds on one another, striking a win-win deal that benefits both sides, as they move on. "The EU and the UK will remain geographically close, and thus geopolitically dependent on one another. Ongoing issues relating to security, terrorism, and refugees will force both sides to work together." One way or the other "trade will continue, even if it faces more hurdles." As negotiations will drag on for years, much can happen that could change people's minds. It's up to Britons to decide their future - how to make the best of Brexit.
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jagjeet sinha Jul 6, 2017

WHEN THE MIND IS BLIND - EYES CANNOT SEE
Bewilderment has no limits - the Author seems brazen in suggesting that Security Architecture should not be part of negotiations.
The Anglosphere Abandonment of Europe - should in hindsight have followed DeGaulle demolition of the Dollar Standard in 1971.
Having underwritten the emergence of Europe post 1945 - and now facing dire economic consequences in his own words.
Without even one argument articulated that explains why Brexit was democratically decided - Brussels without blemishes.
The author is either naive - or is so intoxicated by the belief in Brussels - that the mind is blind and eyes cannot see.
Perhaps Europe's Independence is inevitable - The Anglosphere cannot underwrite its own demise.
Picking it up piecemeal - sometimes Britain sometimes America - seems like a habit now by Brussels.
Germany and France - free to demolish The Anglosphere, after 500 years.
Good luck was never needed in more abundance.
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Prashant Kotak Jul 5, 2017

"...it only managed to reverse its economic decline by joining the European Community..."
This is flaty not true. The UK's rise from the malaise of the 70's had little to do with the EU and *everything* to do with a god-given bonanza in the form of North Sea oil, which in fact Britain used reasonably well, to drive through refroms and build and a decent services industry, and gained some prosperity on the back of that.

Regrettably, It seems German politicians with an EU-phile agenda rarely want to acknowledge the history that actually happened as opposed to the history they wish had happened.
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Nov 1, 2017
  
  I have to disagree that Britain used North sea oil well. Much of the benefit was squandered not in reforms, but in destruction of the industrial base of the country without a concomitant investment in any new vision.
  
  Thatcher delivered little of what she promised and her 'reforms' were hijacked for the benefit of the few, mostly the finance industry which then spectacularly imploded.
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Henk Crop Jul 5, 2017

The Brexit should not have happened. It is damaging for both the UK and EU. When you think of it, it is not only stupid, but it is very stupid.
A recent poll indicated that 69 % of the people in Europe thought it was bad. Ranging from 59 % in France to 86 % in Sweden. Even 71 % of the people in the UK thought so.
Perhaps I am doing some wishfull thinking here, but I have the following suggestions.
Since the EU is not performing well, there is already a discussion going on about herstructuring the EU.
Also it is the primairy task of the European Commission to bring cohesion in the EU.
With the Brexit they have failed badly.
So Merkel and Macron should fire the members of the Commission.
A new Commission is to take over negotations with the UK.
The object should be to limit the damage of the Brexit for both parties.
Discussions about costs will be postponed.
This will include discussions to somehow limit the free flow of people to the UK ( see Mercon delivers).
For the Europhiles in Brussels, I would like to remind them that the UK has successful experience in building a global empire out of most diverse countries and cultures. An experience EU countries hardly have or not all. Experience the EU badly needs.
- Henk Crop Jul 9, 2017
  
  Sometimes in history small events have great unintended and unexpected consequences. The Brexit is one. The UK had a reasonable request by wishing to limit immigration. The EU stubbornly refused to find a practical solution. Now in both the EU and the UK people are surprised and have no plans. The UK will suffer economically. The EU is missing a partner which could have prevented the EU from becoming an authoritarian union. A union with full control over its citizen, lead by German and French leaders, elected by 31 % of the EU voters.
  I do not believe they have the intention to hurt the UK. They just follow their own interest and cannot perceive that others may have different interests.
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- Prashant Kotak Jul 5, 2017
  
  "So Merkel and Macron should fire the members of the Commission"
  
  Well, I know Macron is already displaying delusions of Jovian grandeur (and perhaps Merkel secretly thinks of herself as the goddess Nemesis, bent on punishing the Brexiting Brits), but don't you think that such an action might just be taking taking the michael, out of even the rather deformed version of accountability that passes for democracy in the EU?
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Alisdair Hamilton-Wilkes Jul 5, 2017

There are some aspects to Brexit I find worrying and depressing. An article like this is a wonderful antidote. The further the UK gets from ideologues like Joschka Fischer the better.
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Steve Hurst Jul 5, 2017

The hilariously one sided view of Joschka Fischer is on display again. Not once Joschka do you refer to the fact that a temporary cap on free movement mainly from Eastern EU members would have stopped the Brexit movement in its tracks. So for the avoidance of a simple pragmatic measure due to exceptional circumstances the EU is prepared to lose 15% of it's budget and 'The EU will lose its second-largest economy and primary guarantor of security'. However from the JF point of view it is the UK which is not being pragmatic. Really?

If there is one measure which should convince an observer that the EU has lost the plot it is the total shambles of EU policy with economic migrants which has descended into a North Africa to Southern EU free at point of use water taxi service - which even observers like Bill Gates, a noted billionaire philanthropist who has spent large in Africa, have said cannot work and can be expected to continue for decades until there is no room left to stand on Sicily. The EU has bigger issues than Brexit to worry about, like finding the shortly to be missing 15% of budget which oddly enough neatly matches the bungs thrown the the Eastern EU members who cannot even comply with basic democratic rules. Enjoy. BTW Macron will not save your euro. The BigMac will turn out to just be another Burgher of Calais
- Andrew (Andy) Crow Nov 1, 2017
  
  The BigMac will turn out to just be another Burgher of Calais. Nice. (No, not Burgher of Nice :-) I mean 'I like that'
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M M Jul 4, 2017

The EU Institutions have got much bigger problems than the Brits with Brexit, for a start their lack of Unity and Dysfunctionality and Merkel was quick at raising this issue from the outset. JCJ comments today in the EU Parliament says it all, this whole affair with tthe EU has become a joke. If the Brits play their cards well, the days of the EU Institutions as we now them, shall be numbered. In conclusion:
"We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dreams and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not comprised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed."
Winston Churchill, 19 September 1946, ‘The Tragedy of Europe'
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EU en Groot-Brittannië zijn allebei gebaat bij een “zachte” Brexit

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